Dry Hop Question, Can they be re-used for bittering? Options

[Nick JD]

I dry hop in a swiss voile bag. When I'm cleaning out the fermenter I have to also empty the dry hop bag and clean it.

On throwing the hops away that have flavoured up my beer ... I was wondering if the AAs are still in there?

Could it be that the hops are stripped of flavour, but not of AAs? Would they make a neutral bittering hop?

Anyone tried?

And for the second tight-arse question: when I leave my BIAB bag still hanging up above the bucket (after sparging) for a day, the bottom of it is thick with a sweet syrup (probably due to my bad sparge technique). Is it possible to dry this bottom sugary layer out in the oven and treat it like a crystal grain?

[raven19]

I would have thought the oils in the hops have been washed off into the beer, hence any left over oils left in the hops would be minimal _ resulting in minimal bitterness if boiled later.

Cant hurt to try a side by 5L experiment maybe?

More info from here: Website

Quote:
The degree of bitterness imparted by hops depends on the degree to which otherwise insoluble alpha acids (AAs) are isomerized during the boil, and the impact of a given amount of hops is specified in International Bitterness Units (IBUs). Unboiled hops are only mildly bitter. On the other hand, the (non-bitter) flavor and aroma of hops come from the essential oils, which evaporate during the boil.

Aroma hops are typically added to the wort later to prevent the evaporation of the essential oils, to impart "hop flavor" (if during the final 10 minutes of boil) or "hop aroma" (if during the final 3 minutes, or less, of boil). Aroma hops are often added after the wort has cooled and the beer has fermented, a technique known as "dry hopping" which contributes to the hop aroma. The four major essential oils in hops are Myrcene, Humulene, Caryophyllene, and Farnesene which comprise about 60–80% of the essential oils for most hop varieties.

[RdeVjun]

I've wondered much the same thing and kept a heap of frozen Styrian soup from the hop tea going into my TTLs (made with plugs, so the hops are whole). I was going to to an all- Styrian something fairly soon, probably after I pick the grain up on the weekend. Will suck it and see...

[BribieG]

Alpha acids are the bittering component of hops, but need to be isomerised by boiling them for an hour or so to impart the bitterness. On the other hand, when dry hopping you are looking for the aroma, not the bitterness. So if you have added the hops for aroma then of course there will be AA still there in the hops you have added.

Well, here's an idea, if you don't want to waste that bittery goodness I suppose you could retrieve the hops you have used for dry hopping and boil them up for an hour and keep the resulting 'extract' as a bittering component for your next brew. Maybe freeze it. (IMG:http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/icon_cheers.gif)

[raven19]

Sorry forgot to throw in my thoughts on the second part of the Q...

If it is sweet syrup like wort and it has been converted by enzyme action to fermentable sugars, then surely this is still good to brew with. I would remove any grains prior to boiling prior to resuse down the track. I would freeze it and drop it into the boil next brew. Oven may turn it into toffee!? Different flavours again... not bad, just different! (IMG:http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/icon_cheers.gif)

[Nick JD]

If AAs are insoluble and have to be isomerized to slip into solution, then I'm throwing away purified bitterness!

I'm always using high AA hops for flavour/aroma, so it always seems a shame to chuck 'em. Thanks for the info, all.

Will definately be using my 20g of Pacific Jade that's currently making tastybeer as my next bittering hop.

I figure it might even be a good thing to rid the hop of any flavour if one wants only bitterness from it. I hate it when the flavour comes out in the 60 minute addition and I only wanted bitterness.

This post has been edited by Nick JD: Sep 14 2009, 08:08 PM

[Nick JD]

Sorry forgot to throw in my thoughts on the second part of the Q...

If it is sweet syrup like wort and it has been converted by enzyme action to fermentable sugars, then surely this is still good to brew with. I would remove any grains prior to boiling prior to resuse down the track. I would freeze it and drop it into the boil next brew. Oven may turn it into toffee!? Different flavours again... not bad, just different! (IMG:http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/icon_cheers.gif)

Thanks mate! Will do.

By oven, I was thinking more just like ~80 degrees (door open) just to dry it out for storage (it's a bit like sticky museli-bar crud) - but the freezer sound like a plan.

I'm not winning any friends with the retailers here with these questions, am I? (IMG:http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

This post has been edited by Nick JD: Sep 14 2009, 08:06 PM

[RdeVjun]

Yup, that's almost what I was thinking, but even simpler to begin with- just toss in the old ex- hop tea dregs for bittering early in the boil as they are, I know how much is there mass- wise, and then top up the batch with some fresh plugs for late and dry.
Obviously the dry hopping later on will create some more dregs, but I tend not to use heaps at that stage anyway, so it'll take a few batches at that rate to accumulate enough for the next all- Styrian monster.
Feel like a bit of a tight *rse doing so, but its my beer! (IMG:http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/icon_cheers.gif)

No idea about the malt scavenging JD, but if its any consolation I get a hint of it too and I sparge the bejaysus out of the bag, but considering my BIAB efficiencies have been excellent, I'm not bothered. Good idea though! (IMG:http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

[Nick JD]

No idea about the malt scavenging JD, but if its any consolation I get a hint of it too and I sparge the bejaysus out of the bag...

I'm gonna scrape that sticky crap out and roast it in an oven tray until it's a bit caramelized (maybe 130C for ten minutes) and then use it in my next brew like a crystal malt. I think I've been throwing away an opportunity to customize my own Caramalts.