Non-contact Thermometers

[tangent]

Jaycar

Anyone tried one of these?
I'd like to check my fermenter from time to time.

 

[warrenlw63]

Hey, good find Tangent

More importantly they've got a pretty diverse temperature range. Would be handy for mash temps if they're up for the job. :unsure:

Warren -

 

[tangent]

i know they don't like shiny things too much
i was thinking of a squirt of matt black engine paint on each fermenter and kettle.

my gf's brother is a store manager might be able to get one even cheaper...

 

[therook]

i know they don't like shiny things too much
i was thinking of a squirt of matt black engine paint on each fermenter and kettle.

my gf's brother is a store manager might be able to get one even cheaper...

Bulk Buy

Rook

 

[Simon W]

Pyrometers aren't known for their accuracy, check if there's any accuracy info on the box or in the instructions.

 

[oldbugman]

At work I have a very expensive(hahah)(bought for one of sydneys biggest hospitality complexs to satisfy health/food standards) one of these which is still quite a joke. No way I'd ever put faith in a cheap one.

 

[RobB]

I've got a pretty good one which I use when I fire up my wood fired oven. It gets up to 600 degrees in there, so you can understand why I would want a non-contact device!

The accuracy on mine is +/-2 degrees and I certainly wouldn't expect a cheapie to do better than this. Note that the +/- 0.1 degree on this model is the resolution (what comes up on the screen) not the accuracy. It certainly isn't any good for mashing. Apart from not being accurate enough, it reads the temperature at the surface of your mash which may be lower than the temperature inside the grain bed.

However, I do use it on my fermenter. I don't have a fermentation fridge so I use an esky with frozen bottles. Since I generally leave it alone for 24 hours at a time, I figure the temperature of the liquid is pretty uniform. The two degree accuracy is still a problem, but when it's 40 degrees outside I'm as happy with 20 degrees as I would be with 18.

Cheers,

Rob

 

[ausdb]

Jaycar

Anyone tried one of these?
I'd like to check my fermenter from time to time.

I have an expensive Fluke one courtesy of my work, but it's still really just another toy unless you have everything painted matte black as you have stated. I have tried it when mashing and nothing beats an accurate digital themometer with a long probe stuck in the mash. I will admit for things like wood fired ovens they are the go though, which reminds me to go and buy some terracotta tiles to experiment with wood fired pizzas in my old weber bbq kettle.

 

[PistolPatch]

Sorry guys...

Not a great bulk buy especially as the one I bought from Jaycar was three times the price.

Racking my brains here as it was nearly three years ago but the point and read thermometer I got from Jaycar was a replacement for some other temperature measuring device that didn't work from them. I was too embarrassed to go back a second time and the Jaycar store was over a 45 min drive away. I put it down to a brewing loss. If anyone wants mine though it is still here in mint condition!!! Brewing-wise it is useless. Is the above the same sort of thing?

I have bought at least 8 thermometers in my brewing career and have seen the readings on at least triple that. You want perfect accuracy on a mash and the only thermometer that has measured up out of these 8 (+24) is one of those stainless steel thermometers you get from your HBS. These have had the least variance +- 1 degree.

The prime cause of failures in the new AGrs that have asked me for help or who I happened to keep an eye on or who I have read about on AHB, has been an inaccurate thermometer.

It actually astounds me that thermometer accuracy is not held up as being sacred amongst AG brewers. Everyone talks about efficiency instead. In the meantime they trust their thermometer. WTF?

The next brewing purchase I make, seeing as some brewing mates just broke my only reliable thermometer, is a thermometer from my local university. I won't even brew again until I have a thermometer I trust. I even have a plan for when I purchase this new thermometer which involves some testing and a nice tip for whoever is manning the uni counter at the time.

It is like a builder/carpenter buying a level. You turn it both ways before you buy as all builders/carpenters know that levels are not often that level especially the cheap ones.

Anyway, back to the original post, in my experience, electronic thermometers have been the worst in accuracy - sometimes 11 degrees out on mash temps.

As I have said before, retailers should offer correctly calibrated thermometers to us brewers. Presently, this service does not exist.

A record of my posts shows a real concern about this - I even put it in the thread, "What Do We Want from Retailers?" or whatever I called it. Neville, from Gryphon Brewing has taken it on board and from what I hear has had no luck as yet solving this problem to an acceptable degree commercially. He is still working on it and if worse comes to worse I hope he will offer Plan B to us brewers - a calibration thingo.

Best of luck Nev. I hope you find the cheap solution but if you don't I hope you will do Plan B. I know it is a PITA but us brewers will love you for it.

Spot,
Pat

 

[ausdb]

Sorry guys...

Not a great bulk buy especially as the one I bought from Jaycar was three times the price.

Racking my brains here as it was nearly three years ago but the point and read thermometer I got from Jaycar was a replacement for some other temperature measuring device that didn't work from them. I was too embarrassed to go back a second time and the Jaycar store was over a 45 min drive away. I put it down to a brewing loss. If anyone wants mine though it is still here in mint condition!!! Brewing-wise it is useless. Is the above the same sort of thing?

I have bought at least 8 thermometers in my brewing career and have seen the readings on at least triple that. You want perfect accuracy on a mash and the only thermometer that has measured up out of these 8 (+24) is one of those stainless steel thermometers you get from your HBS. These have had the least variance +- 1 degree.

The prime cause of failures in the new AGrs that have asked me for help or who I happened to keep an eye on or who I have read about on AHB, has been an inaccurate thermometer.

It actually astounds me that thermometer accuracy is not held up as being sacred amongst AG brewers. Everyone talks about efficiency instead. In the meantime they trust their thermometer. WTF?

The next brewing purchase I make, seeing as some brewing mates just broke my only reliable thermometer, is a thermometer from my local university. I won't even brew again until I have a thermometer I trust. I even have a plan for when I purchase this new thermometer which involves some testing and a nice tip for whoever is manning the uni counter at the time.

It is like a builder/carpenter buying a level. You turn it both ways before you buy as all builders/carpenters know that levels are not often that level especially the cheap ones.

Anyway, back to the original post, IME (that means, 'in my experience,') electronic thermometers have been the worst in accuracy - sometimes 11 degrees out on mash temps.

As I have said before, retailers should offer correctly calibrated thermometers to us brewers. Presently, this service does not exist.

A record of my posts shows a real concern about this - I even put it in the thread, "What Do We Want from Retailers?" or whatever I called it. Neville, from Gryphon Brewing has taken it on board and from what I hear has had no luck as yet solving this problem to an acceptable degree commercially. He is still working on it and if worse comes to worse I hope he will offer Plan B to us brewers - a calibration thingo.

Best of luck Nev. I hope you find the cheap solution but if you don't I hope you will do Plan B. I know it is a PITA but us brewers will love you for it.

Spot,
Pat

PP you probably did have an infra red one from Jaycar!
If you want a good thermometer then these as they are getting good reviews on brewboard and it may be worth looking at a bulk buy?
http://www.labsafety.com/store/Lab_Supplie...isredirect=true

As my job is based on temperature I understand the need for being able to measure it accurately and repeatedly and over the years have had quite a few thermometers of varyimg accuracy and resolution. At the moment I have a Therma 1 from this mob in the UK http://www.etiltd.co.uk/therma_series It is very good but not cheap by the time you buy a couple of thermocouples for it.

 

[mika]

Or you cn just do a bunch of mashes and work out that a 67deg mash with that thermometer gives you the FG you're looking for ... course doesn't help you much when that thermometer dies.
I'm sure a NATA lab will calibrate it for you, but I'm sure I wouldn't want to know about the price.

 

[domonsura]

I use an infra-red one to check my fermenter temp, but not mash temp as it's not accurate in that context. The one I have is not a cheapy though, +/- 1 degree accuracy and you can attach a K type thermocouple to it as well if you have to. I'm pretty happy with it, but it's not perfect for everything.

 

[Canumbler]

Ha, I just bought the one from the OP today, but not too worried about how accurate is as it was more because it looked fun.

The packaging says +/- 2 deg celsius accuracy.

 

[geoff_tewierik]

We use Digital thermometers at work, and if it's good enough for TGA and FDA, comes with NATA certification so it's bloody well good enough for homebrewing.

http://www.ecefast.com.au/ProductDetail.as...0&catid=157

Don't know if I need one myself, but if I did, that'd be what I'd get.

Oh and we have a non contact thermo for use with hot piping and so on - seems accurate enough at body temps when we test it out.

 

[PistolPatch]

My goodness! Did I write all that Anyway as you gathered, I have a real thing about thermometers especially those used for a mash!

On a more positive note, the price on the thermometer that ausdb first linked has dropped a hell of a lot. I remember looking at one of those ages ago and I'm sure they were up around $80 - possibly a lot more.

The other impressive thing with that thermometer is that it comes with, "a Traceable certificate that indicates instrument traceability to standards provided by NIST." Never seen this before and not sure what that means but it certainly sounds good.

Cheers
Pat

 

[PistolPatch]

[Edit: The figure of 5 degrees I mention below is inaccurate. See my next post here for the correction.]

Oh, I also only just noticed tangent that you only wanted to use it to check your fermenter. Doh!

I'm not sure if Wayne has the same problem but if I use mine to check a fermenter, the reading varies considerably depending on where you point the device. If my memory serves me correctly, I was getting differences of around 5 degrees in the readings.

Just had a look at a fermenter that I have cooling down for cold conditioning. I get readings from 6 degrees (bottom of fermenter) to 8.6 degrees (top.) This is probably correct. As a matter of interest, if you fill a cube of water from the tap and take readings straight away, they are consistent. I remember in the brief period where I did try using my infra-red gun that I had to set up a probe inside the fermenter and find the spot on the outside that matched the probe. I was never very confident in the results though as even a few inches off this point and the readings varied enough to create doubt.

Hopefully the above was slightly more on-topic for you tangent!


Pat

 

[domonsura]

Nope Pat, I don't get any variation when I use it to check the fermenter, but then mine cost $150 odd. I originally would put a little patch of black insulation tape on the fermenter, but it hasn;t really proved to be necessary. You do have to do that if measuring something shiney like stainless though otherwise it gets confused about the reflection. You can also calibrate the non-contact one against the k-type probe as well, as they will display at the same time on mine.

 

[Canumbler]

Interesting, so buying the cheapy infra-red thermometer has allowed me to realise that that stick-on strip thermometer on my fermenter was actually completely broken, doh :blink:

Bit worried about the accuracy though, has anyone got any ideas on a way of testing a thermometer without using another? ie an object/liquid with a known temperature at a particular state?

 

[newguy]

Bit worried about the accuracy though, has anyone got any ideas on a way of testing a thermometer without using another? ie an object/liquid with a known temperature at a particular state?

Get a beer can and cut the top off. Fill it with ice and then pour in enough water to almost reach the top. Allow a few minutes for the temperature to stabilise, then read the temperature of the can's surface. It should be 0C. Note: just use pure water - no salt.

Then dump the contents of the can, and put it into a pot of boiling water. Boil it for a few minutes. Make sure the can is tipped over, and read its temperature. If you're at sea level, it should be 100C. The higher your elevation, the lower the temperature at which water will boil. You can get a very accurate idea of the actual water temperature if you can measure the atmospheric air pressure, but for all intents and purposes, water boils @ 100C.

The reason I'm recommending using the can is that I've had issues with this type of thermometer when trying to read the surface temperature of a liquid. The can should give you a good target and its thermal mass itself is small and shouldn't throw off the measurement.

This method will give you two different well known temperatures to test your thermometer.

 

[tangent]

well, i've "ordered" one of the pocket cheapies, so i'll post the results. maybe comparing it with Domonsura's expensive one.