Uk Liquid Yeast

[TasChris]

I too have had the issue of over carbed ales.
I changed my routine to racking after 7 days and then increasing temps by 4-5 deg.
ie ferment at 18 then raise to 23 after racking and leave for another 7 days.
After this I CC for approx a week prior to bottling. This seems to have fixed the issue.
Not sure if it is the racking or raising the temp.
I don't think that fermenting the last few points at 23 deg will have a large impact on flavour as its only a very small % of the entire ferment.
I also prime to a low level in my ales so this gives me a little room for any further fermentation in the bottle

Cheers
Chris

 

[Tilt]

I just swirl the fermentor. As im a botulism infested no chiller, they get lots of aeration when they get tipped in the fermemtor. I only really have to rouse about a third of the uk ales I brew. Most ferment out fully without.

Sounds the safe 'closed system' way to do it once fermentation's kicked in.
Before pitching I drop wort about 2 feet to the fermentor and then shake the buggar for a few minutes with a sanitised thumb over the airlock hole.
I'm always a bit nervous taking the lid off after pitching but swirling never gets the whole yeast cake into suspension.
Conical users can blow 02 (or filtered air) from below - anyone tried this through the spigot in a standard 30L plastic fermentor?

 

[Punkal]

I remember an old thread about double dropping English ales. It was used to get the yeast of the trube and to get extra oxygen into the wort, I know some people are nervous about about opening the lid so an option is pumping extra O2 into the fermenter around 16 hours after pitching.

This is an old technique developed by English brewers, probably because they were having the same problems.

Edit here is the link to the old thread http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=52795

 

[Tilt]

Sweet - thanks mate. Another technique to add to the toolbox.

 

[warra48]

Thanks fellas.

Lots of interesting ideas to go on with.

One thing I found which does help, and that is to chill your bottles in the fridge for 2 to 3 days before consumption. Presumably the colder temperature enables more CO2 to be absorbed back into the beer. Just chilling it for a half to one hour in the freezer doesn't cut it.

 

[Beerisyummy]

Thanks fellas.

Lots of interesting ideas to go on with.

One thing I found which does help, and that is to chill your bottles in the fridge for 2 to 3 days before consumption. Presumably the colder temperature enables more CO2 to be absorbed back into the beer. Just chilling it for a half to one hour in the freezer doesn't cut it.

Very true about slowly chilling bottles. I've noticed a much better type of head on beers that have been cooled for a long time.
The beer still tastes the same but it's better with lots of little bubbles.

What's the temperature like in the cellar at this time of year?

 

[warra48]

Very true about slowly chilling bottles. I've noticed a much better type of head on beers that have been cooled for a long time.
The beer still tastes the same but it's better with lots of little bubbles.

What's the temperature like in the cellar at this time of year?

The beer cellar is probably about 18 to 20C. Always feels cooler than the garage. Never put a thermometer in there, but I might just do that.
The wine cellar always feels even a little cooler than the beer cellar.

PS: I have one or two vintage wines targeted for christmas eve to match the seafood. Can't waste good vintage wine on philistines, as it would be on christmas day.

 

[Kai]

Rouse rouse rouse to make sure its done. I always carb low for uk ales. Seems to work well for me. My uk ales always finish at around 1.010 or even less. I have to mash at 70c to get them to finish higher than 1.012, even with lots a crystal

This is precisely correct, in my humble opinion. The issue is not about (extra) oxygenation, it's about rousing.

Heavily flocculent top cropping english ale yeasts are pure evil on a homebrew stage, as far as I'm concerned. You have to beat them with a stick morning, noon and night to keep them working and if you don't, they fall to the top and the bottom.

Then they fall to the bottom and you're left with an unfinished beer full of diacetyl.

But you can't leave that beer in a homebrew fermenter, because in the time it takes that lazy bloody yeast to finish the job from the bottom, the beer oxidises and the yeast autolyses to boot!

 

[Beerisyummy]

The beer cellar is probably about 18 to 20C. Always feels cooler than the garage. Never put a thermometer in there, but I might just do that.
The wine cellar always feels even a little cooler than the beer cellar.

PS: I have one or two vintage wines targeted for christmas eve to match the seafood. Can't waste good vintage wine on philistines, as it would be on christmas day.

Nice one. I have a 100g of Hallertauer in the fridge, in transit.
I might also bring up the new rig. It packs away to not much bigger than a Big W pot. Criticisms always welcome.

The long of the short with carbonation is the same as with any diffusion of gas into a liquid. From what I can tell the initial bottle carbonation temperature will alter the overall volumes of co2 available. The quick chilling of a bottle will never really give the same mouth feel as a bottle that has been chilled over several hours.

From personal/anacdotal evidence, I would say it takes over eight hours at drinking temp for a beer to settle into the bottle. I've been crash chilling for years but it's just a habit caused by not having a dedicated beer fridge.

 

[warra48]

Nice one. I have a 100g of Hallertauer in the fridge, in transit.
I might also bring up the new rig. It packs away to not much bigger than a Big W pot. Criticisms always welcome.

The long of the short with carbonation is the same as with any diffusion of gas into a liquid. From what I can tell the initial bottle carbonation temperature will alter the overall volumes of co2 available. The quick chilling of a bottle will never really give the same mouth feel as a bottle that has been chilled over several hours.

From personal/anacdotal evidence, I would say it takes over eight hours at drinking temp for a beer to settle into the bottle. I've been crash chilling for years but it's just a habit caused by not having a dedicated beer fridge.

Excellent, thanks. See you next week.

 

[drsmurto]

Another vote for rousing.

The minute i see the yeast dropping, i rouse. I also raise the temperature once i am within a few points of expected FG. 2-4C above fermentation temperature to help keep the yeast active.

I do rack which is something you don't do. One of the advantages of this is it allows me to carry some yeast over to the secondary container and resuspend it. I normally see a 1 or 2 point drop in secondary which would otherwise occur in the bottle or keg.

 

[Tilt]

Another vote for rousing.

OK, its becoming clearer for me - its not about oxygen - just the mechanical re-suspension of lazy arsed chiilled out yeast.
What methods of rousing do you felllas find best? Fermentor swirl, stir with a sanitised spoon, sitting on the washing machine on spin cycle.....?

 

[mje1980]

I'll let you in on a secret. I swirl, but its not how you do it, its what you're wearing when you do it. Crotchless leather cowboy chaps, and a pink tutu works for me.


Just kidding haha i just swirl. It swirling doesnt drop it, it aint gunna drop probably. When im top cropping the UK strains, i use a SS ladle, soaked in iodophor. I suppose it could be used to really stir it up, but i've never had to do more than swirling. It's also a good thing to remember your mash temp. I recently mashed a mild at 70c, and when it didn't drop past 1.015 i was pretty pissed off that it was stuck so high. Then i remembered i'd mashed it at 70c, so i kegged it. Yum.

 

[drsmurto]

It's not JUST about oxygen is more correct.

You still need oxygen and the more the better.

Rousing for me is simply swirling the fermenter a few times a day.

 

[billygoat]

This is how they do it at Black Sheep Brewery in Masham, Yorkshire.

 

[Punkal]

well that will rouse them... I guess that is a mechanical method of double dropping.

 

[hoppy2B]

No fear opening the ferment vessel at Black Sheep. :beerbang:

 

[warra48]

OK, to summarise, let's see if I have all the helpful suggestions and experiences correct:

1. Aerate well, and again within say 12 to 16 hours
2. Rouse the yeast, and rouse it again, several times a day, to keep the little fungi working their butts off
3. Let the temperature rise by 2 to 4C after the initial stage of fermentation, or when you see the yeast starting to drop
4. Rack to help it drop another couple of points
5. CC for a period
6. Carbonate at the low end of the scale. Suits UK ales anyway, so that's no problem.

7. If all else fails, add another higher attenuation yeast to finish it off?
8. If that still fails, give up brewing UK ales, and go back to USA and German brews (I don't normally do Belgians)

I think 1 to 6 put together should provide a solution. Here's hoping, because I do love a good UK ale.

 

[drsmurto]

OK, to summarise, let's see if I have all the helpful suggestions and experiences correct:

1. Aerate well, and again within say 12 to 16 hours
2. Rouse the yeast, and rouse it again, several times a day, to keep the little fungi working their butts off
3. Let the temperature rise by 2 to 4C after the initial stage of fermentation, or when you see the yeast starting to drop
4. Rack to help it drop another couple of points
5. CC for a period
6. Carbonate at the low end of the scale. Suits UK ales anyway, so that's no problem.

7. If all else fails, add another higher attenuation yeast to finish it off?
8. If that still fails, give up brewing UK ales, and go back to USA and German brews (I don't normally do Belgians)

I think 1 to 6 put together should provide a solution. Here's hoping, because I do love a good UK ale.

Or buy a handpump and serve it uncarbonated :icon_drool2:

 

[mje1980]

Change strains. Some of them are quite user friendly. Whitbread ( 1099? ), and 1098 ( british ale ) i've found to be very user friendly, in terms of just quietly doing the job, leaving me to the finer points of brewing. Drinking!

DrSmurto has a pretty good idea too!!.